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New Government Discussion

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New Government Discussion

Post by Vizindolf on November 11th 2013, 2:55 pm

Alright folks, here we are. Before we begin, I would like to lay some ground rules: 

First, there will be no personal insults against anyone. Please remember that we are all working for the betterment of the International Western Union.

Secondly, there will be no swearing or "almost" swearing.

And lastly, the rulings of the old judges must be respected. Understand that the three judges, including myself, are not on anyone's side. We will be fair and impartial. If either side has an issue with any of the three judges, please note that in a post.

Lastly, I ask each of you to remember why we are here. The IWU has long stood for something great. We are all looking to continue that greatness. Neither side will get 100% of what it wants during the course of this compromise, but that is what compromise is. Please be willing to negotiate.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Herodas on November 11th 2013, 3:36 pm

Good evening,
These are the most important fact how I see them:
1. The IWU regional government (RG) as it was tried to be put into place prior the happenings of the last days was simply too large.
2. Let us just for a second assume, that the RG wasn't too large - there were simply not enough people active to actually fill all these positions.
3. I can't really see the point to most of the proposed and accepted positions of RG. Very few are rather clear, yes, but most aren't.

Therefore my opinion is a way smaller government of meaningful positions.
Some will say, that this won't be as democratic as the RG from before, but they seem to overlook one thing: Democracy isn't defined by how many governmental positions there are, but by how much the cititziens have to say in governmental matters. I would love to have a smaller government if it means, that it will work.

mfg,
FR Herodas
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Fenburg on November 11th 2013, 6:29 pm

Personally, I beleive the government should be as small as possible. There are only three, maybe 4 posistions that need to exist, in my opinion.
1.Delegate: The "head honcho" if you will.
2.Vice-delegate: Incase something happens to the delegate, otherwise powerless.
3.Recruiter:To get more members. Of course.
4.Maybe, just maybe, two or three people to settle arguments should they arise, which is rare. This posistion might be better of unincluded.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Pharthan on November 11th 2013, 6:37 pm

First and more time-pressing: I don't know if anyone is currently recruiting, but I think now would be a good time to put that on hold.

I do agree, to a point, that the old government was getting a bit large.
However, the current set up we have is too centralized. There is no obvious method of checks or balances. 
Right now, Abacathea and Kialga hold all of the power. Seeing as they are in complete agreement with one another, I really don't see how that system can ever work out.

What I propose is this:
1) New government positions be given Activity-ratings.
2) Maintain position of the Justices, with either a Moderate or Low activity rating. It's obvious that they are needed, but aren't going to be in use all of the time.
3) Have a Presidential Position also be the Delegate. This will give them a degree of power.
4) Justices have Veto power over the President.
5) Secretary of Recruitment (High Activity) can hold any other office.
6) Subordinate recruiters can hold any other office, and answer to the SecRec with weekly updates of recruiting numbers.
7) The Adviser (Moderate-to-High Activity) position remain open. Any major changes will have to go through the Adviser or the Adviser can, with one Justice, Veto the President, should the President have to make more immediate decisions. The Adviser is a stop-gap of sorts to ensure everyone is thinking clearly, to slow some of the processes down, et cetera.
8 ) All offices will be expected to do some manner of recruiting.

This brings us to 5 Exclusive positions, with some degree of checks-and-balances, with additional jobs to be held. If the SecRec is to be decreed as an additional exclusive one, we DID get 6 people put into place prior to this mess, seven with Aba as Delegate.

I will also say we aren't entirely going for Democracy. As NS doesn't have an impact on everyone's daily life, nor does everyone put it as high as others on their lists, and communication is a beast of it's own (and in my opinion the root problem here), we simply can't function as a true democracy. Voices will be heard, but that doesn't mean it will be as a vote.

EDIT:
Personally, what I'd like to see is for GROSS to come back, he, Kialga, and Aba kiss and make up and have us all turn back into one big happy family.
Our present problem is that everyone involved in this mess was far too important to have this happen with; we've already lost two important members, and I've been informed several more plan on siding with GROSS if this cannot be resolved.
I have my own set of members I plan on leaving with, should we fully split in such a manner - simply put, if certain individuals leave, this won't be fun for me anymore. That's why I get on NS, to have fun.

So I propose we have each member of the party write a list of pros-and-cons of their actions and how they propose to prevent such a chaotic event in the future with how they would, on their own part, make such an effort. This can't be a "HE STARTED IT," statement.
While we may not be able to get GROSS to do it right off the bat, we might be able to if Kialga and Abacathea do.

I am NOT, at this time, proposing that anyone step down.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Abacathea on November 11th 2013, 7:05 pm

Unfortunately, at this time, I am announcing my stepping down, however NOT until such a time as this is resolved. I stand by the fact that this was designed to better the reason, and while that was not achieved, me to storm out would be in as much bad taste as if anyone else were to do it. So my continued placement in the region is conditional, but on a timer. That much I felt should be known. I can't actually express my thinking on why, primarily because it would certainly not be conducive to further our ends here, but I can't see me being swayed in this decision. For me, some things have been unforgivable, I'm sure for some, this announcement will be a step forward in resolving this, hence why I'm posting it here. 

Now to the crux of the argument, the outrage seems to be that Kialga and I have all the power. What you fail to realize is, even with all the fluffy government positions that existed, in actual, practical terms, Kialga and I always had all the power, we just didn't exercise them based on what was essentially universal agreement that we weren't to unless needed. 

The need became apparent when I watched elections silently that saw candidate after candidate state they either couldn't or didn't want to take up a position. And then I looked to see how many remaining positions were to be filled, and it was never going to not be a disaster. This wasn't a spur of the moment thing, this was a serious of on-going dominoes falling leading to this. 

The reality is, I agree that the positions need to be few, GROSS's argument was always that if people didn't see a possibility to be elected, they wouldn't stay, which simply isn't true. Friendships and joviality are equally as appealing, a feel good government with positions that are limited to, well RP elements. We need functional, practical positions. I joined this region 358 days ago if my tracking is correct, and this is a far cry from what it once was, despite people claiming otherwise. The fun, is gone. The nonsense, is high, and the 100 nation mark we were so happy to have passed last year, dropped below long before this started.

As I said last night, we shouldn't be buying luxuries when we cant pay the rent.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 11th 2013, 7:10 pm

I would be happy to take back the grievances against Kialga and Abacathea--under the condition that they do the exact same.

Given my position, I am going to be very blunt about this. We worked for three months on the plan for the new government, and it wasn't even given a chance longer than 4 days. That's irresponsible, and given our history and dedication to being a democratic region, there should be no tolerance for a coup, especially when it arises from our own people.

Specifically on the regional government, I believe it would have been far wiser to actually work with the new government and modify it as needed. Destroying it outright was a very poor move. I do recognize the fact that it was a complicated government--however, that didn't justify its immediate and unpopular destruction.

So, to get serious here. I am going to make this perfectly straight: if the coup, or anything similar to its government, is upheld, I will not return to the IWU. After speaking directly with Rachara, she may not return even if this is resolved, as she is so appalled by the "executive privilege" utilized by Kialga and Abacathea. Either way, though, we need to make a solution, and fast--if we don't have this straightened out soon, the IWU is going to tank like the Titanic, just like Anireggio said a few days ago. And he predicted right--not only were we already sinking, but yesterday, we split in half completely.

Time, then, for a good solution. As stated, I won't stand for anything similar to the coup's government, though I will stand to modifications to the plan that we had just published. I believe that, given our current crisis, we should re-adopt some of the features of the original IWU government, or perhaps the entire thing. You do need to keep in mind that we began the discussion for the new government when we had 130 nations--at that point, the plan we completed would have been easily implemented.

Here, in a list, is the specific compromise that I suggest; it is a combination of features from both the original IWU government and the legitimate new one:
--Rather than the Consuls, we will, at least temporarily, simply use a president, who will have the capabilities he/she had in the original constitution of the IWU.
--We will reinstate the vice-president, who will act as the government's adviser and the chairman for the IWULR (we cannot effectively bring the IWURC back because parts of its plan were poorly made. However, we do have enough for a legislature, provided we cut positions elsewhere).
--Recruitment will be reorganized into only one recruiter, as it was originally. Provided we place a dedicated person, it would be much easier for one good recruiter to restore the population than for a team of so-so people working now and then).
--We will keep the official chairman, who will do the same as in previous governments.
--We will keep the WA delegate and vice-delegate, both of whom placed by the current system (nominations and a full election for WA delegate due to admin powers, and the delegate appoints his/her VD).
--We will disband the ambassadorial committee and RP Arbiters (we don't use ambassador nations anymore and RP patrol can be done by Kialga or other forum admins).


Now that I have proposed that, what are everyone's thoughts on this plan?
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Abacathea on November 11th 2013, 7:23 pm

This is all conditional on the others, I've already stated my intent, and what you've just posted has concreted it.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Kialga on November 11th 2013, 7:31 pm

does no one pay attention to the original post. it clearly states no personal attacks.


Kialgan Plan of Government for the International Western Union

I. WA Delegate -- This will be the representative of the IWU within the World Assembly. While no true governmental power will be awarded, they have the opportunity of holding an office within the Council. Nominated and elected by other WA Members.

II. WA Vice-Delegate -- Similar to the WA Delegate, however not as much of a representative within the WA. This person will take over if/when a Delegate steps down or is revoked. Placed by the WA Delegate.

III. Head of State -- The "leader" of the IWU. The head nation, similar of sorts to a Mayor/Governor/President. While being the overall head of the Council, they must seek the approval of the Council to make any legislative decisions. Selected through the Council.

IV. The Council -- The legislative branch of the IWU. This will be a group of elected officials who will serve alongside the Head of State. This group of officials will make laws, and proposals, that they see fit or that the public demands. The election of the council will elect an even number of Councilmen (6/8/10/etc). Of these, there will be one selected by the other Councils to become Head of State.

V. Recruitment Operatives -- A small group (3-6) of willing nations set forth to recruit new members to the region. Mainly volunteers.

VI. Judges -- A group of three nations who, in times of conflict, look upon and decide the best course of action in an unbiased way. Elected.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 11th 2013, 7:33 pm

What, then, do you think of my plan, Abacathea?

As for the attraction of a government, as I've stated several times, I have plenty of experience to know that a region that sits with roleplay and roleplay alone quickly becomes a small region with no influence or purpose, and even more that the people attracted to them are those who say a few words here and there and then never log back on again. People who are interested in a regional government, though, are those who are the largest and most experienced people on NationStates--the people that have gotten enough out of the game to remain in it. Those are the people we should be looking to recruit, and we should be creating an environment suitable for the IWU's growth as a region, not as a funhouse.

As for your quote, I agree we cannot afford to make things too slap-happy and complicated. However, by the same note, as such a large region as the IWU, we can't just lower ourselves to the poverty line with no government.

That is the reason I proposed that compromise plan. It's functional and logical, and all the components of it have been used before. It is an ideal size for the amount of nations we have to draw from, and it is large enough to actually act as a responsible and fair government.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Abacathea on November 11th 2013, 7:35 pm

I ideally would like a happy medium between your and kialgas. Both have merits.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 11th 2013, 8:04 pm

@Kialga: Your plan isn't bad, but to be fully logical, if we're trying to rebuild a region, we need to be able to set something up quickly that we know we can work with.

With that in mind, I feel that we should focus less on creating some wholly new administration and instead establish something that we are experienced with and comfortable using. Again, while there is nothing wrong with your idea, I feel we should work with the best things we have devised in the past.

This doesn't necessarily mean I'm saying my plan is exclusively the best, no. I'm simply saying that whatever plan we use, we should draw as much as possible from our previous administrations so we can work comfortably to reform the IWU.

I would like to point out one thing, though. A recruitment team is a useful tool to have--however, at this point, I feel it is important that we cut it down only to a single recruiter. That way, we have full control over who comes into the region without too much of a bureaucratic mess, and it also allows the recruiter to freely invite nations from wherever he or she pleases, which tends to be a much more productive method than assigning team members to different regions.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Abacathea on November 11th 2013, 8:06 pm

I tend to agree one recruiter is sufficient, lest you accidentally run into double tagging individuals which could be trouble. 

As for the rest. You and K' should ultimately decide this between you. Compromise and so forth.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Kialga on November 11th 2013, 8:15 pm

I honestly feel it better to start from scratch. Square one, if one might. The reason all this began was due to the previous administration. It was too inflated. Members had asked that it be simplified, and few had pointed that there were too few interested or too few that had the time. A simplification was called for, and was met. Though, a little too simply and abrupt.

A single recruiter can work. The small group was a suggestion.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 11th 2013, 8:27 pm

The problem with starting from square one is because right now, the IWU is crumbling fast. If we don't get something up and running to reassure everyone and keep the region on its feet, it'll be impossible to fully recover.

About the previous administration, I don't want to start another hostile argument on this, but you didn't give it a chance. It went into 4 days of elections and was then forcibly shut down by you and Abacathea. In any case, it would have been far more organized and capable than either its predecessor or this tiny coup-government ruling it now. if we needed to change it, abolishing it without taking the opinion of others was a bad decision.

With that behind us, we need to look at what's going on now. We've basically got a political war going on right now. The only way that we can stop it is to get a plan together that is decent enough for everyone to give it a chance and begun quickly enough before everyone loses faith in the region's ability to control itself.

Since we have experience dealing with the previous governments, we know for a fact that they are acceptable and work well. Even if they don't spew out laws left and right, they do help keep a lot more stability in the region, and stability is important above all if we want the IWU to stay alive.

My suggestion, then, is that we at least initially use a combination of our previous governments, so we know the region will work well enough to restabilize and keep things going. After all, under our first government, the region grew to 150 nations and we never had any crises like this one.

In quicker terms, we should begin with a plan exclusively based off our previous governments so we know what we're dealing with and how it's going to work. Once it's in place, the region will be stable and comfortable enough to start working to recover; then, when we feel the region is prepared enough, we can work to put together a completely new plan is we deem it necessary.

Does that sound fair enough?
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Kialga on November 11th 2013, 10:10 pm

I cannot agree to that, as much as I don't want this to drag on longer than it has to.

I believe that in order to rebuild and move on, we need to start afresh. The old is what caused this. The old will cause it again, I feel. Something far simpler than the previous governments needs to be instated, and recycling the old will cause terrible things in my honest opinion.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Iloistan on November 11th 2013, 10:44 pm

I fail to see any real differences besides a change in title names from the "old government" with the new one that Kialga proposed. About the same amount of positions, which was apparently the "problem" with the old. Hell I think there might even be more. Kialga's plan would call for anywhere from 14-21 people participating in the government. Also the only "cancer" the region really had was the absence of a good recruiter because Rachara left and I couldn't handle it on my own. This all seems very petty.

I'm siding with Fenburgs plan. We don't really need a "council". What we do need is a group of Justices to solve disputes. Only 3-5 really, unless the region begins boasting huge numbers of actually active people. Tweaking the council with hopes of it actually working isn't going to do crap. We're all still the same relatively small group of active people. The only way it will work is if we make a proactive effort to actually do stuff in the council, which I was actually going to try to do since I was finally given some power, which in my experience has really only passed between the same small group of people till this election. Hell no one even formally nominated me, I had to step up since once again only the SAME small group of people were nominated. That's this regions real problem. I'm tempted to use a phrase many of you would not like.


Last edited by Iloistan on November 11th 2013, 11:14 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Vizindolf on November 11th 2013, 10:58 pm

I have come up with a compromise plan between the Pharthan, Kialga, and GROSS plans. It is still very rough, but it may be a good starting point:

-Government positions will be given activity ratings. (Pharthan)

-Single President elected from and by a body of councilmen/councilwomen. (Kialga)

-WA Delegate will be elected by everyone (GROSS). He/She will not serve any government role and will be able to hold a seat on the council (Kialga)

-The Vice Delegate and the Vice President will be fused into one. He/She will be appointed by the WA Delegate and will serve the role of adviser and will take the place of the WA delegate should something happen.  Any major changes will have to go through the VP and the VP can, with one Justice, Veto the  President GROSS/Kialga/Pharthan)


-The Council (IWURC) will be the legislature, though it will be much smaller than the IWURC was. (Kialga)
-There will be only one Secretary of Recruitment (GROSS)

-There will be 3 judges who have veto power over president (Pharthan/Kialga)

-The Official Chairman will be reinstated, though only to count votes. (GROSS)
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 11th 2013, 11:19 pm

Similarly to Kialga, as much as I'd like this to be over with, I can't overlook some of the flaws here.

Kialga: this crisis was brought about by a trial and error system. We started with fully new ideas and put them to the test. This time, the ideas seem to have failed. In our current state, we absolutely cannot stand for another failure. That is the reason we must draw from the ideas from the past that we KNOW were successful. That way, we can be sure the IWU will remain safe until we have recovered enough to restart our trial and error system. It is simply impractical and untimely to devise an entirely new government now.

Vizindolf: I'll list my points in order as they appear in your plan. First, about activity ratings, that simply seems like an unnecessary step to take. It would be much easier to simply use the current system, where officials are removed if they are inactive for a certain number of days without an excuse. That is a rigid system that doesn't need any bureaucracy, and it ensures that everyone in the government who stays in the government is on top of things.
Second, on the presidential election. While I agree there should only be a single president to maximize efficiency and promote competition and involvement, allowing a tiny council to elect the leader of the entire region is simply undemocratic. That wouldn't be fair to everyone else in the region--allowing them to elect the lesser positions, but denying them the right to popularly choose their own leader.
Third, I don't quite understand what you mean by "veto the president". The president isn't there to make legislative decisions--he/she is there to EVALUATE the legislative decisions and lead the region. The only thing of the president that can be "vetoed" would be his/her own veto, which I see as being only fair if the legislature, the one passing the laws, has the authority to decide whether the veto was well or ill-educated.
On the IWURC, we also need to be careful about the size of the IWURC. If it's too small, it won't be a legislature, it will just be an executive council. That's not representing the people as a legislature is intended, it's ruling them. While the number of representatives can be lowered, I say that it shouldn't be lowered any more then 10% at the moment, until we gain enough people to where a smaller percentage is an adequate representation body. Furthermore, I recommend that we use the IWULR's plan; the IWURC's plan was flawed, and we fixed the majority of them in the decisions we made on the IWULR. We can call it the IWURC--but its duties and whereabouts should be drawn from the IWULR discussion.
On the 3 judges, restating my earlier argument, the legislature should have sole power over overriding presidential vetoes. However, the duty i recommend the judges be given is the power to forcibly remove an official from office, either for inactivity or another reason specified by the judges in their decision.

With my edits here, we will require a total governing group of 17. That's not unmanageable for us. The only thing we can do to reduce that is abolish positions, which, to maintain a decent government, I feel we should not do. If we are able to achieve some integration between positions (people serving in multiple spots), we would need only 12 people.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Iloistan on November 11th 2013, 11:32 pm

I think it is entirely within the realm of possibility to run this region with 12 people or less. 
Delegate
Vice Delegate
3-5 Justices
1-2 Recruiters, If two than one just as a back up.
And maybe a President although they wouldn't serve much use.

Also maybe just maybe some sort of ambassadorial committee 1-2, we really don't need an intelligence group as there is no "real" threat to our region, besides internal threats.

A Council might arise although we would have to change our own habits to make it work.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 11th 2013, 11:48 pm

Iloistan's idea isn't bad--the ambassadorial committee, by all concerns, is useless to us at the moment.

I propose something similar to his:
--1 President
--1 WA delegate
--1 Vice-President, also the Vice-Delegate
--3 Justices
--1 Secretary of recruitment
--The IWURC, with 8% of the regional population rounded to the nearest odd number (7 members as of now).

For rules, the delegate, secretary of recruitment and justices may hold a seat in the IWURC. This means a minimum government population of 9 people. We can, at maximum, gather about 15 active people. This puts us well in the range of a government that is effective and can be handled by a region of our activity level.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Iloistan on November 11th 2013, 11:54 pm

I can live with that plan. I will back it. Back to where we began when I first joined the region really.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 12th 2013, 12:01 am

For specifications on this plan, the president would use the plans initially introduced in the first IWU constitution. The delegate would have the authorities granted recently in the discussion to form the government that was just abolished. The vice-president/delegate would be elected, serve as the chairman of the IWURC without voting power, and also take up the duties granted to the vice-delegate and the adviser (they have not changed). For the Justices, they will deal with regional disputes and vote to throw or keep nations that have been inactive for the time established in the recent discussion (7 days). The secretary of recruitment will recruit, obviously, and will be required to achieve the established 3 nations per week. The IWURC will use the same duties and abilities decided in the discussion for the IWULR.

Now, what are everyone's thoughts on this? It seems we have two for this so far--myself and Iloistan.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Vizindolf on November 12th 2013, 12:10 am

I will not give my opinion until Kialga and Abacathea have a chance to respond.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Solaray on November 12th 2013, 12:48 am

I like that idea. There should be at least 9 people to fill the spots, with the IWURC for the less active, but still active nonetheless types. Since we don't have a lot of majorly active people, 3 Justices seems like a good number. And by merging the Vice Delegate and Vice President it helps trim the system.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Pharthan on November 12th 2013, 1:24 am

As far as Secretary of Recruitment:
For obvious reasons, a singular recruiter or Head Recruiter would be best.
A SecRec who has multiple people under him would work out a system (i.e. assign people to different Pacific Regions) to prevent overlap.
We can very well leave this up to the Secretary of Recruitment.

As with Viz, I'll wait to voice further opinions.
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..........

Post by Guest on November 12th 2013, 1:35 pm

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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 12th 2013, 6:33 pm

I see the regions not like a club, but instead, well, like a region.

I see it as being like the United Nations, except more closely interacting than that. With that said, there must be a place for real politics in the region, as long as we wish for it to remain what the IWU was founded for and not a chatbox.

We cannot move to either extreme on this--we cannot have a tiny government, because it wouldn't possibly be enough to fairly serve so many people, and it wouldn't support the type of region we are and have been. By the same note, we cannot have a immense and overly bureaucratic government, because our region simply can't support it yet and there is a place for roleplay.

Instead, we should stay with the median of the two. We don't want to become a strict and unenjoyable region, but we do need to be serious to an extent if we are to make anything of the game in NationStates. The past two events have been directly linked to those problems: the government we were electing was too bureaucratic and large for our region, which caused an upset, and the coup government was far too small and simple, which likewise caused an upset. Our best times in the past were, if I would say, with our original government: it was an easy system to handle, it kept the region very stable, and for a long time, it worked, and well.

I am not saying we should shift completely back to how things were before; there were obvious flaws with the original government which threatened the administration, but now we are aware of what some of those are. Combining what we have learned and fixed so far in our experienced working with governments, we can mix the best features of some of our governments to form something that we know we can handle and we know will keep the region united and stable. Hence the plans I proposed on this discussion.

Another reason that such a plan will work well is the fact that we know it grows to suit a larger population. And, with a legislature, which we had little time to work with, the government will be able to significantly morph itself as necessary without causing an uproar such as this. That will allow the IWU to consistently maintain stability and its government to remain self-operating; the region will retain the necessary serious aspect to stand as an influential region, while at the same time will leave plenty of room for roleplay.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Pharthan on November 13th 2013, 7:29 am

I rather like that plan.

My only concern is the idea of having a legislature - as good as it may be, I don't think it should be implemented immediately. We need to get the core government up, then later, the legislature.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 13th 2013, 9:42 am

Well, seeing as we've gotten a legislature into a government of 9 people, I see no problem in handling it right now.

The government, if it is to be able to make laws and modify itself to suit new conditions, needs to have a legislature. It's a necessary component of a good system, and if we have the room to implement one, it's a benefit to do so.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Vizindolf on November 13th 2013, 5:06 pm

The legislature would have to be small, unless of course nations would be able to serve in more than one position, which I support.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by Gatito on November 13th 2013, 6:57 pm

Here is what I came up with.




Gatito’s Government Plan:
 
The government shall be divided into two branches, which will be executive and legislative.
                Executive Branch:
1.       The Executive shall be known as the “Potentate”.
2.       The Potentate will be the World Assembly Delegate.
3.       The Potentate will be elected every four months by a referendum. The candidate must be first nominated, and accept the nomination. Then, an election will be held after a four day nomination period. The Potentate will win by a simple majority. If there is a tie, then the candidate with the lowest votes will be removed from the ballot. If there is a tie across all candidates, then the election will be turned to the Regional Convocation (they will be explained later), and the winner will be determined there.
4.       The Potentate will reign for four months. After two months of being in office, the Convocation will hold a special meeting to assess the performance of the Potentate. If they deem the Potentate’s actions to be unlawful, blasphemous, cruel, unjust, or evil in any way, they shall vote on whether the Potentate can stay in office. If they vote him/her out, then they shall be dethroned, and the Vice Potentate will take up the role for the remainder of their term.
5.       The Vice-Potentate will be appointed by the Potentate after they are taken into office. If a Vice-Potentate is not appointed within a week of the election, then the Convocation will vote. The Vice-Potentate will automatically become Potentate should the current one cease to exist, retire, leave the region, or is dethroned. The Vice-Potentate should maintain a presence in the World Assembly, should the current Potentate leave unexpectedly.
6.       The Potentate is the World Assembly Delegate, and will be entitled to the following powers…
a.       Ejecting nations (can be challenged by the Convocation)
b.      Ejecting and Banning nations (can be challenged by the nation or the Convocation)
c.       Editing the World Factbook entry (can be challenged by the Convocation)
d.      Suppressing and Unsuppressing posts (can be challenged by the owner of the post, or the Convocation).
e.      Controlling the region’s embassies (can be challenged the region who has embassies with the IWU, or the Convocation).
f.        Should the Minister of Security declare a state of emergency, the above restrictions are removed until the state of emergency ends. The Convocation can challenge the actions after the emergency’s end.
7.       If the Convocation or nation challenges the deeds of the Potentate, a trial will be held. The Minister of Justice will hear both sides, and make a decision based off of that. If the Potentate loses the trial, then they will be forced to undue their work.
8.       The Potentate cannot run for re-election directly after they resign from office. They can however do so once the next person’s term ends.
9.       The Potentate cannot run for re-election for an eight month period if they were dethroned by the Convocation. They cannot be chosen for Vice-Potentate in that same time period, as well.
10.   The Founder can overrule all restrictions, as well as have administrative power, even if he is not the current Potentate. The Convocation can challenge his actions, though.  
 
Legislative Branch:
1.       The Legislature of the Region shall be known as the Regional Convocation, and will consist of members (ministers) elected by the population.
2.       An election for the Convocation will occur every five months, and will take place over a twenty-five day period (tentatively).
3.       During that month, an election will occur every five days, starting with Seat A, and going in alphabetical order.
4.       The Seat Positions are…
a.       Seat A – Minister of Security
b.      Seat B – Minister of Intelligence
c.       Seat C – Minister of Foreign Relations
d.      Seat D – Minister of Justice
e.      Seat E – Minister of Recruitment  
5.       The Ministers will announce their candidacy on the Regional Message Board, at least one day prior to election time.
6.       The Minister of Security will be elected first. Their duty is to decide when a state of emergency will be declared, as well as informing the nations about the current status of the region.
7.       The Minister of Intelligence will be elected second. They will supply the Minister of Security as well as the Potentate with active intelligence reports about other regions, as well as domestic nations.
8.       The Minister of Foreign Relations is responsible for recommending embassies to the Potentate, as well as embarking on diplomatic missions to other regions. They are also responsible for ending hostilities between two other regions, if commissioned by the Potentate. They will be elected third.
9.       The Minister of Justice is to be elected forth. When presented with a trial, they will hear both sides, and make a well-thought out, unbiased decision on how to solve the conflict.
10.   The Minister of Recruitment will be elected last, and will be responsible for gathering the maximum amount of active nations into the region.
11.   If there is ever a tie in the Convocation’s votes, the Founder will have the tie-breaking vote. Should the Founder cease to exist, then a referendum will be held. Should the referendum be a tie, then the Potentate will decide.
12.   Convocation members can run for reelection as many times as they please.
13.   If both the Potentate and Vice-Potentate leave office at the same time before their term ends, then the Minister of Justice will become the next one. If the seat is vacant, then will be the Minister of Foreign Relations, followed by Minister of Security, Intelligence, and Recruitment. If ALL of the Seats (for some reason) are vacant, then a referendum will be held immediately.
14.   All new laws will be sent through the Convocation and voted on. Any citizen can suggest a new law to one of the members.
 
 
Extra Positions:
 
1.       The Chairman will be elected by a referendum. They cannot hold positions in any other government, department, and will announce their candidacy at least one day prior to elections. They will be in office for one month. The Chairman cannot run for re-election directly after they resign, but they can after one candidacy has passed.
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Re: New Government Discussion

Post by GROSS Independency on November 13th 2013, 11:52 pm

I think our government plan should be less complicated and less focused on producing something wholly new. So far, our system of forming governments has been a sort of trial-an-error; we try certain features of a government, and they either work well or fail. That system was one of the reasons for the recent crisis; we tested features that were too bureaucratic, and it ended in conflict. Then we switched to a government of only two main positions, which also failed, and ended in a crisis.

As a result of this, we need to be very careful right now. We can't afford to gamble testing another trial-and-error feature; another crisis now would plunge us down even further, perhaps to the very bottom. Because of this, I recommend that, instead of testing fully new ideas, we instate a government based on the most successful factors of our previous governments to form an administration that will be sure to maintain stability, which, at the moment, is our biggest concern. Even if we don't use this government permanently, it will keep the region unified well enough to get us back on our feet, at which point we will be safe to experiment again with new ideas. It also means that if we form another replacement government, more people can have a say and we will have the time to thoroughly debate the whereabouts of it before it goes into effect. Since most features of our old governments were debated and have already been tested, we know what to expect from them, and by combining the most successful ones, we won't have to risk another crisis or even major disagreement over its structure.

Using such tested features, then, I propose the following plan:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GROSS Independency Plan:

Positions:

President
--The executive of the region, chosen by our standard election process (2 days for nominations, 2 days for voting)
--Has the power to veto legislation
--Decides whether to keep or "fire" an official after 7 days' unexcused inactivity
Benefits of using a president: Faster decisions, encourages more activity and competition in elections, less bureaucracy than a council

Vice-President
--The secondary executive of the region, chosen by our standard election system (2 days for nominations, 2 days for voting)
--Acts as the chairman (vote-counter and organizer) for the legislature
--Presents legislative decisions to the president for review
--Acts as the region's adviser
Benefits of a Vice-President: Keeps the legislature working, simplifies government by being combined with adviser

Secretary of Recruitment
--The nation responsible for recruitment to the IWU, chosen by our standard election system (2 days for nominations, 2 days for voting)
--Must notify delegate and founder if a new nation to the IWU was not invited
--Required to recruit a minimum of 3 nations per week
Benefits of a secretary of recruitment: Simpler than a recruitment team (and much more easily handled), keep the IWU growing steadily, keeps IWU in control of who enters the region

Justices
--Made up of 3 justices, chosen by our standard election system (2 days for nominations, 2 days for voting (each voter will select 3 candidates))
--Act as judges for regional disputes
--Can disband officials that misbehave/break regional rules or laws
--Votes to disband/keep president in event of presidential inactivity for 7 days without excuse
--Votes to select replacement officials for any nations disbanded from office (from inactivity or misconduct)
Benefits of justices: Fairer decisions than a single judge, more democratic, time-effective replacement decisions

WA Delegate
--The WA representative and secondary administrator of the region, chosen by our standard election process (2 days for nominations, 2 days for voting)
--Responsible for managing the region alongside the founder
--Must vote with the majority of the region in WA votes
--Decides to eject/keep nations that were not invited to the region (the reason for this is to prevent infiltration; the founder may do this as well)
--Responsible for RMB and RP "patrol"
Benefits of WA delegate: assistant admin for the region, democratic decisions toward WA votes, is essentially a required position to have

IWU Regional Council (IWURC)
--The legislature of the region, chosen by our standard election process (5 days for nominations, 5 days for voting (each voter selects the number of candidates over the required amount that they do not want; for example, if 10 nations were required and there were 12 candidates, each voter would choose the 2 people they did not want to be in office))
--Comprised of 8% of the regional population, rounded to the nearest odd number
--Responsible for proposing and passing/repealing legislation (65% majority)
--Can modify the regional constitution (75% majority)
--Can override a presidential veto (85% majority)
Benefits of IWURC: allows the government to adapt to changes, provides a body for formulating new laws or changes, allows for democratic government decisions

Regional Chairman
--Counts votes for referenda, chosen by our standard election process (2 days for nominations, 2 days for voting)
--Responsible for counting votes for referenda and elections
--Vote results are required to be posted on the RMB within 2 days of the vote's completion
Benefits of regional chairman: Provides trusted official to count votes for regional decisions, allows residents of the region to formulate legislation independently of the legislature

Basic Rules:

Votes and Elections
--Every official's term will last 4 months
--Elections will begin exactly 38 days before the beginning of the next term (34 days of actual elections, 4 extra days)
--Every person (not puppets) in the IWU will be permitted to vote or nominate
--Nations must have been in the IWU for 1 week to be nominated
--Nominations must be posted on the RMB, and nominations must be accepted on the RMB before the nominee becomes a candidate
--All referenda votes are to be telegrammed to the regional chairman
--In the case of too few candidates being obtained by the end of nominations, the method will switch from nominations to volunteering for 1 additional day. If there are still too few candidates, the president will appoint candidates to the election
--Elections are to be carried out in the following order: President, Vice-President, Justices, Secretary of Recruitment, Regional Chairman, IWURC, WA delegate

Position Regulations
--Each official can hold a maximum of two positions at a time. Both must fit into the regulations.
--Any official may hold the second position of secretary of recruitment. The Justices, secretary of recruitment, regional chairman and WA delegate may serve in the IWURC. No official may hold two of the following positions: President, Vice-President, Justices, Regional Chairman, WA delegate.

Resident Proposals
--Any nation may compose a resident proposal (a proposal to instate/repeal a law or amend the constitution, voted on by the region)
--All proposals must contain the following information: the proposal number (gov't proposal #4, for example), the specific options of choice for the vote (one option MUST be to reject the proposal), the vote will end 2 days from the time of the posting of the proposal, all votes are to be sent to the regional chairman
--All proposals must be sent to the founder for review (review to check for worthy ideas (worthy being defined as pertaining to the IWU or its government), grammar, and the required features). If the proposal is rejected, the founder must send the proposal back to the author with a list of the specific problems with the proposal. If all problems are fixed or the founder approves the proposal, the author may post the proposal on the RMB at will.
--If a proposal passes, its provisions are to be treated as law. The IWURC will have authority to repeal resident proposals as laws.
--A resident proposal is passed if a simply majority of the region votes in favor of it or one of its options other than rejection.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The benefits of the GRInd Plan include the fact that everything in it was a feature of a previous government; all the factors included were ones that were successful. This means that we know it will be a functional administration in the very least. It will also require a minimum of 10 people to fill, and a maximum of 15. This figure can be easily obtained by our region, and though it isn't as tiny as a minimum government of 8, it is more representative to the ideals of the region. This plan has also removed positions that have proven to be unnecessary or useless, including the adviser, vice-delegate, ambassadorial committee, intelligence team, RP arbiters, and RMB watchers. Some of these have been integrated into other positions, such as the adviser into the VP, the RP arbiters and RMB watchers into the delegate, and so forth. However, through our past, we have had almost exclusive lack of use for a vice-delegate, ambassadorial committee, and intelligence team. This plan, as a result, removes positions that are "dead spots" in the government. It also includes every position fully necessary to a true government, which allows it to function and morph with the region's growth.

As for Gatito's plan, I have a few things I would like to point out. First and most basic, as I have stated, it is unwise at the moment to experiment with entirely new systems. You plan appears, for the most part, a decent system, but if we wish to ensure stability to grow out of this decline, we will need to ensure that we are comfortable with what we are working with and the system will be successful. The only way we can be sure of that is by using ideas of previous success. Secondly, your government combines a wide array of positions into a small government. For example, the "Potentate" must act as the head executive, the region's WA representative, and all the duties of the assistant regional admin. Furthermore, the Regional Convocation in your plan consists of only 5 people--that is not much of a legislature, as it is more of an executive council. For a region of nearly 100 people, a tiny circle of 5 elites won't be a fair lawmaking body. The lack of a percentage base also makes the Convocation unable to grow with the region's size, so no matter how large the IWU becomes, it is always represented by only 5 people. Furthermore, your plan lists no duties at all for the Vice-Potentate. It also restricts the leadership to WA members (because both the Potentate and Vice-Potentate must be in the WA), which prohibits all non-WA nations from participating in the leadership circle. Regarding the Minister of Justice, there is only one person in charge of judicial decisions, which means a biased outcome is much harder to prevent and the decisions are less democratic. Moving on, the Convocation is also comprised fully of officials who have other jobs to do; I know that, from experience, jobs such as recruitment and intelligence leave you with little time for anything else. That would put us at risk for an unproductive and inactive legislature. Lastly of the flaws I can find at the moment, your system does not allow for resident proposals (laws and amendments voted on by the entire region), which allow ultimate authority to fall with the region's resident nations. Resident proposals are rare and easily handled; prohibiting them would slice into the IWU's principles of democracy.

My plan fixes these flaws. It is comprised of tested and previously successful positions, which means its system is, by default, functional. My plan also combines certain positions that can be easily handled together, thus cutting on government size, but also leaves enough variety in positions to ensure every job can be fully devoted to by the person in charge of it. Next, the IWURC in my plan is percentage-based, meaning that as the IWU grows, it will continue to be fairly represented by a likewise-growing legislature, rather than ruled by a rigid executive council. My plan also gives abilities to the secondary executive (the Vice-President). Furthermore, my plan separates the head executives and the WA delegate (while abolishing the vice-delegate), which means the chief positions in the regional government are open for everyone to run for, not just WA members. Next, the judiciary section in my plan allows for three Justices instead of a single Justice, which means court decisions are much more fair and impartial than with a single Justice. Next, the IWURC in my plan can be fully occupied by nations with no additional jobs, ensuring they all have the time to remain active and devote their time to their job in the legislature, without additional jobs such as recruitment and security. To finish, my plan also specifically protects resident proposals, providing a way for them to be reviewed and allowing referenda to be the ultimate legislative authority when necessary.

I anticipate everyone's thoughts on this.
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Re: New Government Discussion

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